Curse

Isgorathe Huang · Jun 06, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

/notsigned

How does not contributing a lot of alliance faction make you lazy???????? Maybe you dont play that much, or you dont like AB and do other stuff. I personally dont play that much AB because my computers lags pretty bad sometimes when i do it.

Some people might not be certain if their guild would kick em or not so they might be pressured into doing things they dont really like.

Does it show how much fame, gold, or balthazars faction every player has in the guild window? NO. So why should it show this?

Grinders go play WoW.

Sigh, unfortunately it seems few people are capable of reading these days.

For a start, if you're in a guild which has a lot of faction and there is pressure to keep earning faction, not earning it DOES make you lazy, especially if the reason is you don't like it, or you're too busy meeting your own selfish needs. If you don't like AB or your computer isn't good enough, there are many other, easier ways to earn faction, and blaming AB is a poor excuse. Find another guild would be my advice there.

Secondly, like it or not, faction is a grind - however if all the memebers earnt a small amount of faction everyday, the main contributors wouldn't have to grind out big amounts, and implementing my idea would stop people from leeching off the success of the guild, should the guild staff choose to use that information in such a way.

Thirdly, your second point is downright stupid. If a member wasn't sure of the policy, he'd ask his leader about it. If it was a kicking policy, he would need to pitch in or get out. If it wasn't a kicking policy, then he'd be fine. As stated numourous times, it is up to every individual guild as to what they do with than informaiton.

And finally, of course you can't see the amount of Balthazar or gold people have, because that isn't important. However you are wrong on the fame count, as with the new title system players can now show others their rank. Some guilds require you to have a certain rank before entering, and whereas in the past you could lie and no one would know, this time if the guild leaders so choose, they can kick a member if he fails to display his claimed rank. That's an example of how guild staff use this kind of informaiton to set their policy. Do you see every guild doing it? Of course not, and the same would be true if my idea was implemented.

The same is happening with faction - For example if I recruited someone and asked whether they could make 10k faction in a week, they could quite easily lie and say yes, and I wouldn't be able to monitor it. If that information was freely available to all (or perhaps just the leader and officers) some players would think twice before lying about their faction farming capabilities, and go and join a more relaxed guild as stated numerous times in this thread, but sadly it still fails to penetrate some people's skulls.

Rikimaru · Jun 06, 2006, 09:49 AM // 09:49

/signed

If you're in a guild and they kick you for not contributing enouph, you should get a different guild anyway. Both because you don't have the same ideals as them, and because they were big enouph of jackasses to kick you (Unless they're a competative guild, then it's reasonable).

Xenophon Ualtar · Jun 06, 2006, 12:32 PM // 12:32

/signed

I am in favor of pretty much anything that will tell a Guild leader more about what is going on in their guild.

It amazes me that all people are looking at here are the negatives. Try looking at this from a different view point. How is a guild leader supposed to reward people if he/she has no idea what is going on in the Guild? How is he/she supposed to promote or give positions to people? This would be one more way of just seeing who is dedicated to helping out the guild.

Xeno

Navaros · Jun 06, 2006, 12:47 PM // 12:47

/signed

Everyone's faction contribution or lack thereof should be a matter of public record, for all to see. The weak links should not be able to hide under the "cover" of lack of information. The strong links should be recognized for their donation achievements.

flamingmarmo · Jun 06, 2006, 01:55 PM // 13:55

/notsigned
Not everyone has the time or inclination to grind and this could lead to some people abusing other players to faction farm.

CorstedPirate · Jun 06, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

/signed

Ok, I do not have a guild that is straining to ever own a town. My guild is not in an alliance, and I really hate the idea of faction farming. Yet I can see the value of this idea. It is not about kicking anyone out of a guild or anything like that! I wish people would bother to actually read the idea which is good!

The reason for it would be so that the leader and officers can see who is contributing what to the guild. If you are in a guild that is trying to maintain ownership of a town there is likely agreements about each person contributing a certain amount of faction every week. Some people will likely put in more than others, it doesn't really matter. Just do what you agreed to do.

If you aren't doing it, they should know so they can ask you why and possibly agree to cover for you if the reason is valid and helpful to the guild. For instance, lets say you don't have time to farm faction because you always seem to be the only monk on that can help people with whichever mission. That is a good reason, and most people would be ok with it, if your help can be verified in a guild that requires faction farming. I think in other kinds of guilds, it would be more of an interesting sort of race with rewards to winners or something.

It really all depends on what kind of guild you are in as far as how it would be used. If you want to be in a town holding guild, you need to help with it, not leech off of others, imo.

Fantus · Jun 06, 2006, 03:13 PM // 15:13

It would be the very first thing I would disable for my guild, but if you really want to use Big Brother systems in your guild, go ahead...

...I just wonder who'd want to be in a guild like that, but maybe it's just me...

thedarkmarine · Jun 06, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenophon Ualtar

/signed

I am in favor of pretty much anything that will tell a Guild leader more about what is going on in their guild.

It amazes me that all people are looking at here are the negatives. Try looking at this from a different view point. How is a guild leader supposed to reward people if he/she has no idea what is going on in the Guild? How is he/she supposed to promote or give positions to people? This would be one more way of just seeing who is dedicated to helping out the guild.

Xeno

All hail Big Brother!!!

\not signed

Can see too many ways in which this can alienate people. Yes, blah blah, (insert for signing), but they are not strong enough.

frickett · Jun 06, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isgorathe Huang

For a start, if you're in a guild which has a lot of faction and there is pressure to keep earning faction, not earning it DOES make you lazy, .

I don't agree that people are lazy because they aren't farming faction points. There are other things in the game other than Faction farming.

If I only have a couple of hours to play, I can either get my necro through vizuna square, or farm some faction points.

Im not saying I dont want to farm faction some times, but I want to do other stuff too. This doesn't make me lazy.

dreamhunk · Jun 06, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

no i DON'T AGREE WITH THAT

master_of_puppets · Jun 06, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isgorathe Huang

However you are wrong on the fame count, as with the new title system players can now show others their rank.

I said in the guild window, not by titles.

Leeching off other's work... Since when are computer games about work? I thought games were supposed to be fun, a break from work.
OK, so someone plays more GW than you and contributes more alliance faction than you. What you're saying pretty much is the people who dont contribute as much dont care about the guild and only care about their

Quote:

selfish needs

What selfish needs?

Isgorathe Huang · Jun 06, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

I said in the guild window, not by titles.

It pretty much equates to the same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

Leeching off other's work... Since when are computer games about work? I thought games were supposed to be fun, a break from work.

sigh, what is it, miss the point day? For some guilds the work needs to be done. To repeat, SOME guilds. Others don't care and that's perfectly fine for them. People calling it a Big Brother system are obviously pleased with themselves for thinking up the term and are blowing it entirely out of proportion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

What you're saying pretty much is the people who dont contribute as much dont care about the guild and only care about their

That's exactly what I'm saying. Unless it's in a guild that doesn't care, then it's fine, but if the guild does care and you aren't contributing because you don't want to, then you obviously don't care.

Selfish Needs = Try looking the word selfish up in a dictionary, but in short it means doing things that only benefit them, such as using faction for amber etc. Again, if your guild doesn't care about faction, then no one will mind, but if it does, the leaders should know that you're not pulling your weight. Imagine if in a football team if one of the players just sat down and said he couldn't be bothered playng for the team, or he didn't have time. That team would kick him out, and that's how competetive it is for the guilds in high level alliances. Please try and see it from their point of view. CorstedPirate clearly would never use it, yet he can see it another point of view and for that I admire him greatly.

Underlying message here is that it would be up to each indivdual guild, and each individual player as to whether they stay or not, and what guild they choose.

Firefly21 · Jun 06, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

/signed

Any guild that is working to get a town needs people to help get Kurzicks or Luxons faction. It is easier if everyone in the guild tries to help donate some of their spare time to help get that faction. If there is only 1 person getting faction it’s not fair for him to do all the work. A Guild should be a group effort to put in faction, but without know who hasn’t put in faction makes it hard to tell who is giving faction. If we had a way of telling who been giving faction and the amount, it would put less stress on that 1 individual.

Ok, let’s say you don’t care about the faction and getting a town. I really don’t see how a bit of information on how much faction each person has given would hurt you. It’s up to your leader if the guild wants to be competitive or just wants to have a fun guild with friends.

Rogmar · Jun 07, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isgorathe Huang

Selfish Needs = Try looking the word selfish up in a dictionary, but in short it means doing things that only benefit them, such as using faction for amber etc. Again, if your guild doesn't care about faction, then no one will mind, but if it does, the leaders should know that you're not pulling your weight. Imagine if in a football team if one of the players just sat down and said he couldn't be bothered playng for the team, or he didn't have time. That team would kick him out, and that's how competetive it is for the guilds in high level alliances. Please try and see it from their point of view. CorstedPirate clearly would never use it, yet he can see it another point of view and for that I admire him greatly.

Underlying message here is that it would be up to each indivdual guild, and each individual player as to whether they stay or not, and what guild they choose.

I'm assuming spending time to advance a character through the game is selfish according to what you say, because you can't FF and do this at the same time...
As for competitiveness in guilds, as one of the main alliances competing for Cavalon, I hardly see guilds fighting over alliance spots or even players having trouble getting into these guilds...There's plenty of space...

Navaros · Jun 07, 2006, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

I said in the guild window, not by titles.

Leeching off other's work... Since when are computer games about work? I thought games were supposed to be fun, a break from work.
OK, so someone plays more GW than you and contributes more alliance faction than you. What you're saying pretty much is the people who dont contribute as much dont care about the guild and only care about their selfish needs. What selfish needs?

It is not fun for the people being leeched off of when weak links leech off the Guild that gets them benefits. That is certainly being selfish on the part of the leechers.

Something that the implementation of the OP's suggestion would rightfully fix.

Dr Strangelove · Jun 07, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

If you're in a guild where you are supposed to be farming faction, it would be nice for you. If you're complaining because you don't want your faction farming guild to know that you're a lazy ass, well, did you really expect that you could just lie about it forever?

For the majority of us who aren't in faction farming guilds, it's a complete non-issue. I don't think I'd give it a second glance. My alliance gave up on trying to control a town a while back. (Let's see.. we max out around 100k faction, and we need 3 million to take a town. If we take a town, we get a 20% discount on merchants and the ability to waste our money on fireworks. No thanks). It really doesn't affect me, so go ahead and implement it.

omny · Jun 07, 2006, 09:05 AM // 09:05

/Signed.

Even though I haven't contributed a lately.
Make it available to all members through the members list though.
And quit whining guys, why the hell should you get the advantage of being in an alliance that owns a town if you won't even put in a mininmum of effort to keep it?

Isgorathe Huang · Jun 07, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogmar

I'm assuming spending time to advance a character through the game is selfish according to what you say, because you can't FF and do this at the same time...
As for competitiveness in guilds, as one of the main alliances competing for Cavalon, I hardly see guilds fighting over alliance spots or even players having trouble getting into these guilds...There's plenty of space...

Sadly with the current state of things, yes. However as I have said many, many times before in this thread it is up to every individual guild as to whether to set any sort of faction requirements. However if everyone went out of their way just a little bit to bring in a small amount of faction, then the handful of main contributors wouldn't have to spend the rest of their lives earning faction just to lose it in degen, and most people would then have the time to be getting on with other, more interesting things.

Let's take the alliance I'm in for example - At the time of writing we currently own Tanglewood Copse, and a large amount of that faction is split inbetween two guilds. 3 or 4 others (including the guild I'm in) have about the average amount for the alliance total, whilst a couple of others are only currently contributing about 6%. Their places are very much under threat, as all it would take is for a 500k guild to come along and before you know it, the old guild is out and the new, better guild is in. It's not a question of space, the guild I'm in doesn't have the full capacity of 100 members, but I wouldn't be happy with just anyone being allowed in to reap the rewards of the success of others.

And let's be honest, with the current state of luxon alliances pretty much any half-decent alliance can say they're competing for Cavalon. Naturally you can't vouch for all of the luxon alliances and I can't speak for all the Kurzick alliances, yet seeing as House Zu Helter requires approximately double the amount that Cavalon does, I'd say the Kurzick alliances need to be more competetive, at least for the moment.

Rogmar · Jun 07, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isgorathe Huang

And let's be honest, with the current state of luxon alliances pretty much any half-decent alliance can say they're competing for Cavalon. Naturally you can't vouch for all of the luxon alliances and I can't speak for all the Kurzick alliances, yet seeing as House Zu Helter requires approximately double the amount that Cavalon does, I'd say the Kurzick alliances need to be more competetive, at least for the moment.

Go ahead and say that but it's not the faction amount that qualifies but the difficulty of getting that amount faction...a month ago we had almost 6million more for the primary towns than Kurzicks. With Supply Run nerf it's much harder to get one million and most people focus on AB's which are a very inconsistent income. Not only that, when TC took Cavalon the second time, many guilds that already had a small town just stopped trying because they could get the best of both worlds (Cheaper Merchants + Deep) I don't think the competition will heat up back to what it used to be either until Anet gives towns better rewards that people will stop whining for who aren't holding those towns...
As for main contributors getting a rest on bringing in faction, a lot of the people I know who are like that, actually like Faction farming, so it's not the unfairness problem

Prince Daniel · Jun 08, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

hmm i think the main objectors here seem to be missing the point yet again. Firstly getting faction whether you like it or not is a grind, no point complaining about it in this thread. Secondly yes you can get faction and do the missions, obviously not at the same time, do a bit of both alternatively. Someone said this could lead guilds to abusing players??? If the guild wants a town then they will be able to see who contributes to this goal. Again , it is up to the guild on what action to take. Guild leaders and officers will have the sense and reasoning not to kick unless necessary. You must have joined the guild because you share the same goals, if you dont, join another.

This complaint about 'big brother' is ridiculous. Any kind of organisation HAS to be able to monitor how people are contributing to their aim i.e getting a town. After all this is GUILD WARS not question time. The only info available to guild leaders at the moment is when they were last online...surely this isnt enough for a competitive guild.

The bottom line is this will aid competitive guilds, if you are in one then you must be competitive and will contribute faction so this will not affect you and if you arent in a competitive guild then there is no problem there.